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22.09 Vestlia Golf Course Av: Brian Phillips

Dear Asbjørn,
Thank you for visiting Vestlia Golf Course and hope you don’t mind me replying to a couple of comments about the course. This letter is written with the approval of the owners.

The golf course is built at approximately 800 metres above sea level. At this height above sea level a golf ball flies up to 10% further than if at sea level. The golf course is as you stated not long because of the restricted size of the land. When these two elements are combined as they are at Vestlia the course plays very short. After discussions with the owners it was agreed that I would be allowed some allowance for creating a number of unconventional type greens. Of the total nine greens, I would say that there are three that are unconventional and require imagination to play the hole.

The Par 3 over the water that is 124 metres long plays at about 110 metres due to the height above sea level, so it is a wedge or a 9 iron for most players. I agree that the green is not as deep as it should be. This was the last green to be built and the ground conditions were not ideal at the time of the year we were constructing that hole. A meeting was held with the owners and the contractor at the time of construction and it was agreed by all that we would get the hole finished and see how the hole played. We have known for two years that the green will probably have to be enlarged at the middle back portion of the green and this has always been a plan between all of us involved in the project but we wanted to see how the hole played first. I have played the hole three times and have parred it twice and bogeyed it once.

So the hole is not impossible to play but due to maintenance problems we most likely will add to the green at the back, which is not as great a cost as you stated on your website, certainly not twice the cost! It is just a case of cutting the irrigation piping and constructing a back portion of the green and the existing part of the green does not even have to be affected. We are in total agreement with you but as I stated this is something I and the owners agreed some two years ago.

You also mentioned you didn’t like the 7th hole a Par 3 of 175 metres that falls away from the line of play. Fall away greens are always controversial and low handicap players tend to not like them because they cannot see the bottom of the flag. If your main reason for not liking the green is because you find it very difficult to judge the approach to the green then I mean I have achieved my goal! The hole is designed to be difficult as there are so many other ‘birdie’ chance holes on the course.

I am not so sure by what you mean by that I should have contacted someone that has at least a little knowledge about golf. I have had a handicap as low as 6 and still have a handicap of around 9 these days. I have also played and studied many golf courses all over the world; from Pine Valley to Merion to The Old course and feel I have a good background in golf.

I have had articles published in two international golf course architectural books in the last two years. I own over two hundred books on golf including about 100 of them just on the subject of golf course design.

I appreciate your comments about the course and hope you enjoyed your round and that my three controversial greens didn’t ruin your score or your day. As I had responsibility for most of the project I would also be most interested in your opinion about my bunker placements as well as my fairway contours. Again, as it is a short course I tried to create all different types of lies on the fairways to ensure that a flat lie is not achieved unless a shot is hit in the best position.

I feel that I have designed a fun course that is best played without the driver (if you are a low handicapper) and I am sure some fantastic matchplay games will be contested over the course.

I do not feel that the greens you have mentioned have been designed through a lack of knowledge but more of trying to produce something different from the norm. Golf in my opinion is like life and is not always fair and it is not about receiving fair greens or a fair stance every time but more about how each individual handles the rough with the smooth.

Again, thank you for your comments and visiting the course and I look forward to having further discussions with you about my future designs.

Yours sincerely,
Brian Phillips

Answer:
Regarding my visit to Geilo
I just judged the little green and how it was. The reasons why it is like that have good explanations. But for me it is the result that counts. Double cost of rebuilding bad greens was (as you can read in the article) a comment in general. (Generell kommentar). As I have told Thomas Meinich; on that particular hole it does not take much work to make it better. I am happy that you agree with me that the green is not deep enough=not good enough.

You explain two other greens as “unconventional". You try to explain on behalf of me why I don’t like green green tilting away from you. You are wrong by writing “not seeing the bottom of the flag” – blind holes are OK if it is done in a proper way. The greens I saw were not good in my eyes (and in other's eyes). The main reason were the dimensions and proportions. The dimensions were wrong – to explain it shortly. Ondulations are OK, but the proportions (proporsjonene) must be correct. That is not the case at Geilo on those particular greens. You call it "unconventional". I call it bad greens.

I was a consultant myself on that Geilo course for second opinion for the owner a few years ago when the holes were drawn and where to put them. It is difficult to get more out of the limited area. Among other tings I managed to find a considerable amount of meters to increase the total length.

As I wrote; I think Geilo is going to be a nice course with many interesting design solutions. Ref: Bortsett fra "detaljene" rundt greenene fremstår golfbanen på Vestlia som en morsom bane. Litt annerledes enn mye annet. Annet er heller ikke å vente med den beliggenheten - i bunnen av alpinbakkene i Vestlia og like ved vann.

Dette er blitt en hyggelig bane i vakre omgivelser som er vel verdt et besøk for turister.

You have to agree that this is a very good “kritikk” of the course.

I still think it would have been a good idea to have consulted somebody for a second opinion on the greens before they were shaped. The owners know very little about golf course design. Somebody else should have been consulted. That is somebody with knowledge about golf course design. (Difficult to find In Norway)

I know you are genuinely interested in golf course design and got your education. That is a good start for being a good architect in the future. But it is not a guarantee for being one. It is a long way to go.

By the way; your two pars and a bogey says nothing about the par 3 hole’s quality!

I look forward to playing Geilo. And I look forward to seeing you again and discussing golf course design with you. There are not many in Norway who knows very much about golf course design – unfortunately. Not very many in Norway share our interest in this matter – unfortunately. Just look at the little response on your seminar on Design and Construction of Golf Courses in October among regular golf players.

I think many courses in Norway would be well off if they used you to improve the design of some of their golf holes.

Good luck with your golf course design business! I really hope you do well!

Asbjørn Ramnefjell

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